Random Thoughts and Discussion Points
Let me say a few things first to get them out of the way. #1. I am not a writer. So, if there are errors, grammatically or otherwise, let me apologize ahead of time. #2. I have never posted anything on a WordPress blog, so I am not sure what all the features are. #3. I just wanted to publicly thank Atom Groom for setting this up. (And anyone else that helped in getting this site organized.)
So, now that is out of the way… I just wanted to post some thoughts and discussion points. There have been many topics floating around in my mind regarding HTML / CSS / Design. Since I started doing web design, my experience has run the gamut of techniques and languages.
I would like to talk a little about CMS’s. I know there are tons of people out there using WordPress as a CMS for customers. As of late, I have been using Modx for development. If you are not familiar with Modx, do a little research on it. It definitely has some nice features. My question is, what are your feelings on the idea of a CMS vs reality of them. It seems in my experience that with a CMS, all it does is give the customer the power to destroy your design, and if you are a stickler like me, your code formatting. Unless you have to option of keeping them confined to specific areas of text only.
On one hand, I understand the idea of what a CMS allows us to do. We can offer to our clients the ability to make an investment in a website for their business without the recurring fees of coming to us every time they need make a small change. If done correctly, it can be a valuable selling point. On the flip side of that, don’t we want our customers to come back to us to make updates and changes? After all, we are the experts right? Also, if you are doing a website with a CMS, do you charge a significant amount of money more for that? It seems that in my experience, I have to spend quite a bit more time and thought into the CSS layout.
Comments, questions, suggestions…
Author Info: Ryan Wake
Also, I am the happily married father of two beautiful little girls living in Crown Point, and working in Valpo. Not sure I have officially become a Region Rat, but I am close.
No worries, Ryan. I’m kind of new to the WordPress thing too. I still can’t figure out how to change my avatar.
The concept of a CMS is wonderful. It gives the customer the control and customisation they’re looking for and willing to partake in.
In reality, the results are scary. But it’s not something I worry too much about. I give them guidelines when I deliver the materials. If they follow them, great. Otherwise it’s no sweat to me. I inform them of the consequences of such visuals, but it’s theirs now to do with as they please. I just never show what the site currently looks like in my portfolio.
ModX is cool, but too involved for most of the sites I do. I tend to use Concrete5. It’s basic, easy to template (very similar to ModX) and uses blocks to add functional content (videos, galleries, text, etc.). I only use something like WordPress if I’m making a blog (that’s not often). WordPress is good at what it does, but it’s not a true CMS. nwicreative.org is a perfect use for WordPress. A site for a local business is probably not a good use of WordPress.
I tend to not like the outcomes, but the positives of a CMS far outweigh the negatives. Also, what is up with clients making everything bold and italic!? Do they really think people are more likely to read it? I don’t know about anyone else, but it makes my eyes water.
@Bryan – change your avatar by using http://en.gravatar.com/ once complete, this will work on many websites out there.
@Ryan-
If you setup your CMS correctly, the client should have little ability to destroy the site / framework. Using the WYSIWYG editor, they will absolutely input some horribly formatted code, but those are the breaks. As long as they cannot destroy the layout and are able to make simple updates, that’s the goal.
Also, depending on what WYSIWYG editor you use, the code formatting is really not too bad.
The number one reason why CMS implementation fails, is because the designer / developer does not provide the best solution for the client, instead, they implement what they feel comfortable with. If you’re not listening to your client and asking specific questions regarding the needs to edit the site, you’re doing your client wrong.
The market is flooded with CMS’s, it’s up to you the developer to research them, understand them, and to provide the best solution for their needs. This does not mean getting comfortable with one and using it for all your clients. You may end up using several different CMS’s in your career.
To your point about clients / updates, etc. Depending on your workload and what type of work you prefer to do with your time, will decide if a CMS solution is something you want to add as a service to your clients.
Personally, the last thing I want to do as a freelancer, is copy and paste text into a page all day long for my clients. That’s basic stuff, that I don’t want to do, nor deal with. I do want to make money off of enhancements to the site, whatever those are. That’s what I prefer my clients come to me for.
Not all clients have the budget for a CMS, so in that sense, you’re stuck doing updates for them, most of the time.
AG
To Atom’s point, while I do very minimal freelancing work, I do have to deal with clients and their website changes all day long at my job… and sometimes I just wish the clients could go in themselves to make a copy change.
Not having the ability for clients to make simple copy changes is an inconvenience for me and the client themselves. Why should they have to wait a day to swap out one sentence? Why not give them the power to make those piddly little changes themselves? Imagine all the time saved?
Since they were mentioned here, I am going to check out Concrete5 and ModX. I’m only familiar with WordPress. I tried to figure out Drupal and Joomla! one time, but it ended in a huge headache instead. Too complex for me.
@Bryan-
My second reply is in regards to your thoughts on WordPress.
While you’re correct on WordPress being built / started as a blog application, I do not agree with you on WordPress as CMS.
If you do your homework and understand how WP works, you’ll find that it is indeed a fantastic framework for a client CMS. Along with the thousands of great customizable plug-ins, it’s rock solid in my opinion.
The #1 reason why – because it’s not overly complicated like 98% of the CMS solutions available today (from a admin perspective and someone in a company who updates content).
There are tons of other reasons why it’s a solid CMS, that I don’t have the time to go into, but if you research, you’ll find those answers out there.
Dig deeper, I promise you’ll be enlightened.
AG
@Atom
Have a little faith. Though I am unfamiliar with the WordPress dashboard, I am quite familiar with what WordPress is capable of doing.
My thought was that first and foremost it’s a blogging platform. Many designers and developers believe it to be a panacea for all their web needs. I disagree with that.
Yes it is relatively easy to use, but is it necessary in all cases? No. The few clients I had with CMS needs didn’t need anything so complicated. I chose (between who knows how many) the CMS’s that I felt worked best in the situation I needed to handle.
I know how to use about 10 different CMS’s of varying difficulty. Concrete5 is far less complicated to set up and use than than WordPress, so long as you don’t have a need for blogging or blog-like news updates. Otherwise, yes I would use WordPress in those situations.
B-
I have nothing but faith in ya bud!
As stated in my post to Ryan, no, there is no CMS that is valid in every case, or even consistently for that matter.
It’s weird that you think that the dashboard is complicated, most webbys say how basic it is. Most compare to Joomla, or other overly complicated CMS’s though.
I dig Concrete5, I’ve used it, demo’d it, etc. It’s pretty slick. My only concern is that it’s relatively new and that’s scary to use something like that for an actual client. (if they dissolve, stop supporting, etc). Other than that, it’s pretty rad!
Thanks for commenting!
AG
I don’t think it’s complicated, my (few) clients do. I’m just unfamiliar with it, or I thought I was because I couldn’t find how to change my avatar (not realising it was through Gravatar).
I know it sounds weird, but I swear that they couldn’t grasp the difference between Pages and Posts. I had to use something that didn’t have both. Concrete for some reason organised things in a way they could understand.
Couldn’t reply to your last comment so replying on this one
I haven’t checked out concrete5 yet (will though hopefully soon) but I have previously written something similar to that. It seemed to me the users just had different issues with grasping what they could and couldn’t do with the system and it caused just new headaches then really making it clearer.
I think in the end it really comes down to the user and what they are familiar with or how their brain works. I know one person who finds WP confusing but uses Joomla, which I would NEVER want to put in front of a client. It really comes down to what the client will be most comfortable with, and for me it’s always seemed easiest with WP.
Sadly their is no test you can give them to find out which will click with them (maybe setting up a demo of each and having them play, but even then they will probably blow that off) the easiest until you have already made the site.
I actually just designed my first site in WordPress last week. I’ve had a few clients ask for it, but past the blog set up, I didn’t have much experience with using it as a site tool. That said, my wife and I are involved in quite a bit of local theatre. Most groups want a website to promote their shows but are limited by the budgets their shows create. So I tend to donate quite a bit of time to helping promote them. WordPress has been a great tool for the CMS it offers when I have a board of directors who want to be able to update as they need without bothering me for simple changes. It’s nice to be able to offer them a solution that’s cost effective for them and also gives them a sense of involvement.